The Feeling in the Room transcript

Transcript

Annalisa  00:00

Is this in front of me? A big glass wall? And is that Rachel? And if this was a police interrogation room, that would be a mirror. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Good. Exactly. I am Annalisa Dinnella and I am visually impaired. I'm a white woman with blonde hair. And I work in television as a screenwriter.

Miracle  00:21

Hi, I'm Miracle Maduforo, sometimes called Miracle Man. I'm Nigerian. And I speak the Igbo language as well. I'm tall, over six foot and involved in business and do bits of freelance work.

Annalisa  00:37

So we're here to have a conversation as two people with sight loss about what personal touch means to us. At the moment, we're in a very nice recording studio having our chat. But we also recorded ourselves as we walked around the Wellcome Collection in Being Human, Medicine Man, and also in the cafe.

Miracle  01:00

Yes, that's right. And, you know, we looked into how our attitudes and experiences and feelings change in regards to moving from where we were to moving to the cafe space.

Annalisa  01:17

Yeah, it's kind of, it's quite a lot of space for me. And it's very, it's massively open plan. And the kind of sound reverberates around it. And I think because it's kind of free flow, people can come from any direction. It makes me personally feel a little bit tense. But it's a nice space, like it's got beautiful, natural light. And from the sounds of the coffee making and stuff it's clearly a really nice cafe. But I don't think I would come here to relax. I think if someone suggested meeting here for coffee, or for like a work meeting, I would say no,

Miracle  01:58

You would say?

Annalisa  01:59

No.

Miracle  02:00

Okay.

Annalisa  02:00

Because I think

Miracle  02:03

Its disturbances.

Annalisa  02:04

I think I'm quite, I am quite sensitive to sound. And its just the levels of sound coming from every possible, from high, low, different directions. It's quite distracting I find. If there was like carpets, and velvet chairs, then the sound would be softer. And then I would be able to focus on what my, what the person I'm with is saying, and I would be able to engage and connect. I think because noise can mean danger when you're visually impaired. I just get so distracted by the noises around me that, that I, yes, I could be there and yes I could have a conversation, but I'd be concentrating so hard, I wouldn't be fully present.

Miracle  02:50

Okay, so, Annalisa, what does touch and the benefits it brings to you mean to you?

Annalisa  02:55

Primarily, I need to answer that in terms of what touch literally means and cause I have a very small amount of useful vision. I think I do, of course, use touch to give myself the information that my eyes aren't giving me. So I know in the morning when I get dressed, for example, I don't really look at my clothes, I feel them and to know which on I need. So my toothbrush has a little band around it, with the, with little spikes. And that way I know it's mine and not my partner's. So I think there are certain things I, in everyday life, where I use touch as just part of gathering the data that I need to get on with my day. But I think also touch can mean lots of other things as well.

Miracle  03:48

Do you take too much interest in the colour of your clothes, then?

Annalisa  03:53

I do, because my condition is degenerative. So I used to have much more vision than I have now. So because of that I have quite a visual kind of attitude towards stuff. And so I do choose what I want to wear based on what it looks like and what the colours are. But I've found as my site has diminished, I do choose brighter colours a lot because I find them easier to understand. And also I quite like being brightly coloured, because I'm easier to identify. It's just practical that people can find me in a crowd if I get lost or something. What about you? I mean, do you care about colour?

Miracle  04:29

Oh, yeah, I do. I mean, colour is very important to me because it helps me in terms of the environments that I travel, and if something's brighter, it's more beneficial for me. Annalisa I was wondering because at this particular moment you're in a particular part of the, you're standing in a particular darker part of the exhibition itself. I was wondering, would you have another, a different perception? If you had maybe moved a bit more?

Annalisa  05:01

Into the light? Yeah, maybe? Yeah. Should I do that? Yeah. Yeah.

Miracle  05:10

Is it more of a harder work or?

Annalisa  05:12

It's less hard work. It's less hard work, definitely.

Miracle  05:13

Interesting.

Annalisa  05:20

Yeah. Isn't that interesting?

Miracle  05:21

Very. There's more of a seriousness to the space itself.

Annalisa  05:26

Yeah, I think Miracle put it really well. I think it does feel really different. The other space felt playful. And this feels academic. I think also, because it's dark, just a totally personal reaction. I just feel like oh, it's not for me. I don't do dark. I mean, I don't know how your vision compares to mine. But do you find it harder to see when it's darker?

Miracle  05:51

I do. Yes, I do.

Annalisa  05:53

Do you instinctively kind of tense up when you're in a darker space?

Miracle  05:57

I do actually, because like, in a more dark place where light is shining on glowy floors . It makes me to be a bit more, sometimes on high alert, then, you know just wondering, is there something I'm not perceiving right, let's say. Touch comes in useful in many, many, many things. Really, touch tells you a lot more.

Annalisa  06:24

Yeah.

Miracle  06:25

Touch can really tell you a lot more.

Annalisa  06:26

I think it can. I mean, this is a really gross example. I'm really sorry. But when my kids get head lice in their hair, my partner he will just look. And he'll try and get them out just by looking. Whereas I have developed a system with touch. And I can get them out much better. I mean, that's the first example I thought of, and that's really gross and antisocial. I can't think of another one.

Miracle  06:53

It's a good way of looking at it. Because touch can really pick up on so many things.

Annalisa  06:58

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I've got systems that some of them are unconscious, I think even, but I have clearly developed a whole load of systems when my sight doesn't give me the information I need. And when you do use touch, sometimes I think it can actually be more thorough.

Miracle  07:16

Definitely.

Annalisa  07:17

You were saying earlier that your right hand gives you more than your left hand?

Miracle  07:21

That's right. Yeah. Basically, I learned to use Braille when I was young. I read Braille with my right hand, I couldn't read Braille with my left hand, my right hand has more of a in depth experience, shall I call it, of what it's touching. More awareness is transferred, than the left hand, whereas the left hand, flavour of that feeling is not being translated.

Annalisa  07:50

I remember a few years ago, I was playing acoustic guitar quite a lot. And the tips of my fingers got really, really hard. And then I noticed in the morning when I was getting my clothes that I couldn't tell what was what. And I realised that I was actually taking away my sensitivity. I was making my life harder.

Miracle  08:15

It's funny, you said that because um, I remember years ago, I was thinking of learning the guitar. But it was advised to me that if you use Braille, learning to play the guitar may not help.

Annalisa  08:28

Yeah. You said what you use touch a lot in public spaces. And I was just thinking that whenever I have to get the tube or bus or whatever, I always have to touch so much stuff like the railings and everything. Like I touch way more stuff than fully sighted people would do. Since COVID I've become kind of so hyper aware of germs. And it just always makes me feel really sad because I carry around the you know, the gel in my handbag and putting on my hands a lot. And yeah, so now, stuff that I have to do like grabbing railings always feels unclean.

Miracle  09:09

Yeah, definitely.

Annalisa  09:10

It's kind of, and it's such a big part of our lives. It didn't used to feel as dangerous, did it? And now it feels a little bit dangerous.

Miracle  09:16

That's right. Yeah. And when I'm within a train, let's say it's in a very crowded carriage. I prefer to stand up and grab something. Because the touch of the space where there are many people sitting around you, the touch of the actual atmosphere, to the skin. To me, it's not very healthy. In terms of how an environment feels to you, does sound, sometimes hinder or compensate it?

Annalisa  09:44

Definitely, I can walk into a space and immediately feel like I want to get out, or that I want to stay in it. And that, to me is always to do with sound. It's very, very rarely to do with anything else. And yeah, I think because when you're visually impaired sound can mean danger. So an environment that is noisy, that has competing noises, I can't really process that sort of environment, because I sort of see with my ears. And so if my ears are being taken over by other things, then I feel like I've kind of lost both senses. So a welcoming space for me, will be a space with really soft acoustics. And I do think I prefer to have space around me because I think sensing lots of bodies of lots of humans around me, again, I just think I have to pay really close attention to everything. Because anything could be a danger, at any point, anything could just come out at me. And so for me to be really relaxed, I think I need a bit of space around me, and a bit of quiet really.

Miracle  10:53

Definitely. With me, if you're travelling, and so forth, and with all the noises, it's like, you want to not be in this situation for too long. What you're perceiving is kind of slowing things down. And it's like, it's a situation that I don't wish to be in for too long.

Annalisa  11:13

Yeah. What about, what about lack of light? So what about if you walk into a dark noisy space?

Miracle  11:18

Right? Yeah, that's like in pubs, for example, pubs? They're hell.

Annalisa  11:25

Yeah they are aren’t they?

Miracle  11:26

Yes. When it's really dark, I really hate that environment. But sometimes when you really, well you know, you want a good brunch. You just say, you know, let me go and get what I need. Everywhere needs sensory access. Sensory access, needs to be better prioritised.

Annalisa  11:51

Yeah, generally, but also, like, if people are saying, "oh, let's all meet up". And someone, say someone's a wheelchair user, they say "oh, really sorry, that venue isn't accessible. I can't get in there". People go, "oh, God, of course, sorry". I've never come across a situation where someone says "that's not accessible to me, because it's too noisy", or "because it's too bright" or "because it's too dark". And that needs to be,

Miracle  12:14

Uplifted.

Annalisa  12:15

Yeah, it needs to be uplifted, absolutely.

Miracle  12:19

Definitely. So, yeah, we're here sat at the Wellcome collective within an exhibition called Being Human, and sat next to a piece of art, dedicated to water. And sat nicely on a bench, listening to the sound of life, which is water. There's various art pieces where touch is really significant to what one can draw from what has been presented. It's been a very interesting exhibition.

Annalisa  13:11

Yeah, it's, for me, what's really struck me about this is that I've been able to take in the art in my own way, at my own pace, have it been described to me, discover it without a rush, or without a big hurry, and being allowed to use touch and being allowed to use other senses. And I've actually not really done that in a gallery before ever, I've always just sort of had to rush through and try and use the bits of sight I have to get as much as I can. And it was just so lovely to, to allow the work to sort of come to me at my pace, actually, that was, that's been actually really striking. And it's been a really lovely way to take it in. I mean, I think the thing that actually, that I've really, really enjoyed from this morning when we were in the Being Human exhibit, was having the exhibits described to me, and being allowed to touch elements of them, in my own time and in my own way. That was really, really lovely. And it sort of reminded me that I really do love museums and galleries, and that if I'm allowed to interact with them, in my own way, with all my senses, I can get a lot out of them. And I'd sort of forgotten that. What about you? How did you find today?

Miracle  14:31

Good thoughtful exhibitions which encouraged various modes of perception. You're in a gallery where your senses compensate each other. It's all about adding further embedded thoughts in how a space could be embracing and inclusive.

Annalisa  14:50

How do you feel connected to other people?

Miracle  14:55

Okay, I like to embrace people. I'm very playful, shall I say?

Annalisa  15:01

Are you a hugger?

Miracle  15:03

Not automatically, no. Not quite a hugger. But I'm more about squeezes. Before the pandemic, what I often used to do to people, people, people that I was close to, is that I used to give what's called a chest hug. You know, not just an ordinary, like, hug, hug. It's like, put our chests together, boom, like, my chest feels a bit like, like rock, kind of experience. These days it's more about like, kind of squeezes, and not too, not too much bodily interacting.

Annalisa  15:33

Do you think touch is important for human connection?

Miracle  15:37

I think it can be, but it depends on who you're connecting with, isn't it? Like, for example, I haven't seen my immediate family for some time, because they're in Nigeria. And when I go back, touching will be very, will be very much a priority. In terms of hugs, so they also have this way of bringing people together. They say from hugging. I'm not just like hugging one person, maybe hugging two people at once, as I'm a large person, stretch people, get two people together and hug them with my large arms and keep bringing them together kind of attitude. So in terms of a connection, yes, when I go back, that will be very key. Thank you for listening to me and Annalisa.

Annalisa  16:23

Thank you for listening to The Feeling In The Room.

Miracle  16:25

I hope it has enlightened your mind.

Annalisa  16:27

Have a lovely day.